Posts by Deputy Dog

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

Deputy Dog

LT

Let me get this straight

It was foreknown (in the eternal plan, before the founding of the world) that all would be vessels of wrath.

Are you saying God did not make the " vessels of wrath", but that they made themselves? You make it sound as if God had no control over the " vessels of wrath"

OK I'll bite.

That would be the general scriptural viewpoint, in that all makind are by nature vessels of wrath

Where did mankind get this nature? From Adam or from God? Was Adam able to give himself a nature?

So is sin "actions", or more than that?

It's much more. we sin with our minds all the time. Jesus made that clear. I ask again whats with Gal.3:19?

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

Deputy Dog

michelle

I know it must seem like all we want to do on this thread is argue. But deep down, I'm praising God with you! Thanks again michelle

D Dog

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

Deputy Dog

LT

Actually, since you ask, I think quite the reverse. I think the whole story of Adam and Eve pertains to spiritual disconnection, and not physical death (whether or not one leads to another is another story entirely, and not part of this discussion, but 1Cor.15 would be a valid starting point).

I think we agree on more than you want to admit.

That would be the general scriptural viewpoint, in that all makind are by nature vessels of wrath, yes. I don't think it's correct to throw "predestined" into that pot of adjectives, though, as scripture doesn't. You surely know by know that this has consistently been my only sticking point?

I think we need to back up for a moment, did we not agree that predestined and foreordained mean the same thing. Did not " The Westminster Confession of Faith" use these two words to... well lets say to "keep the peace". Maybe they are the ones you should make your plea:

The answer could easily be that, as God predestinated it all (if you blur the definitions between predestination and foreordination)

Help me out here I'm confused! Who is bluring the definitions?

Now see, there is another point on which we would need to be more specific
How do you understand Gal.3:19, in that context?

Here again, I need some help, sin means sin in most any biblical context. If you are asking about the law, that was given to prove our nature is to sin and show our need for a Savior who gives us a new nature. D Dog

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

Deputy Dog

myelaine

Thanks, I agree, but did that knowledge come from you or from God? Did God humble you, or did you humble yourself.

D Dog

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

Deputy Dog

LT Regarding Reprobation. I do not understand how one can come to any other conclusion. Do we not agree that the ONLY way of escaping our destiny of hell, is by God's grace through His Son? And ONLY the elect receive this grace? If Adam did not seal man's doom, then why did Jesus have to die for the elect? I thought that Adams sin nature was the basis for predetermining all mankind to reprobation. Do you think that this verse only deals with physical death?

1Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

I believe that all men (before they are born) are doomed, predestined, foreordained, predetermined, or on there way to hell (because of their sin nature), with no way out. Except, God chose to elect some. This is the first thing a child of God learns about the gospel. If it is not, how do you witness? Why would anyone need Christ? Would you tell them that, "you should stop sinning or you're gonna need Jesus!" or "accept Him now, before you really need Him!" I think the church has been playing bait and switch for much too long.

Sin simply put, means braking God's law.

"What did Jesus mean when he stated 'forgive them Father, for they know not what they do?'".

Jesus stated this because they could not understand the serious nature of what they were doing and to Whom.

It's been another long day! I'll deal with "The Fall" and "God as author of Sin" tomorrow.

D Dog

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

Deputy Dog

LT

Did mankind (or at least God's elect part of it) gain anything after the fall (through Christ) that they did not have in the garden (before the fall)?

D Dog

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

Deputy Dog

LT

It looks to me, as if we agree that God actively caused somebody to sin in Acts 4:28.

That scripture is in the specific context of God's [active] will concerning Christ, with the nations (including Herod and Pontius Pilate) acting against him. Here, indeed, Peter uses the word translated "Predestined". The meta-context is that Peter is declaring that since God's will caused (not permitted) the nation to rise against His Christ, what of it if they rise against them? It is in God's providence however they are dealt with, which should cause them to preach with boldness.

As for "Reprobation / Sin / The Fall / God as author of Sin" I have commented on some of these issues in this thread beginning on or about page 3. The only line I draw is calling God or his actions unrighteous.

Gen 50:20

But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

Can there be any doubt that God actively used sin, to " bring to pass" H is will.

Rom 8:28

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

I noticed this verse is not included with your comments. Is there a reason? I think that God actively causes sin, and causes it to workout for the good of the elect.

I'll comment more soon. It's been a long day.

D Dog

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

Deputy Dog

LT

Here, in Acts 4:28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done . Was God's counsel "passive" or "active"?

D Dog

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

Deputy Dog

LT

D Dog asked

Would "anti-grace" be better know as condemnation or God's wrath?

LT said

D Dog:
I don't think so, as that's poured out AFTER death. I'm specifically talking about while alive, and the sun still shines

Here is condemnation promised.

Gen 2:17

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Here is some condemnation delivered:

Gen 3:16

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

D Dog

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

Deputy Dog

LT I've been thinking about your comments and the "lapsarian controversy". Would you have a problem using the words " determined before" or "predetermined" in regard to the destiny of " vessels of wrath" as in:

Acts 4:28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

I also believe that all the "lapsarian" positions have a flaw, and that is, that they have God thinking in a linier way, like man, limited or influenced by time. You give an order of a plan, as if God, would need to reason out a plan in time, so He can react or respond to man. I think this is a little backward, don't you?

D Dog